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I'm curious...
Often I know when I've had a succesful shoot by the "hard on" I get at the end. I've never taken advantage of the "hard on" nor the model. I've photographed girlfriends where the sexual relationship existed prior to the shoot, but haven't had sex with those who simply modeled for me.
Of those of you who can relate, who has had sex with his or her models? Who would admit to it? How has it helped your work or hindered it?
Thanks for your time and energies.
sincerely
~ws
Often I know when I've had a succesful shoot by the "hard on" I get at the end. I've never taken advantage of the "hard on" nor the model. I've photographed girlfriends where the sexual relationship existed prior to the shoot, but haven't had sex with those who simply modeled for me.
Of those of you who can relate, who has had sex with his or her models? Who would admit to it? How has it helped your work or hindered it?
Thanks for your time and energies.
sincerely
~ws
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Re: Taboos, Mores & Norms of Erotic Photography
Fri, July 13, 2007 - 8:30 PMI may be a bit weird, but I rarely ever get aroused while shooting. It’s during the reviews, when the model and I are seeing what we just created, then my bodies automatic responses can be very revealing. But when we return to the shoot, my mind seems to slip into an altered state, and my body isn’t part of that.
Chris -
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Re: Taboos, Mores & Norms of Erotic Photography
Sat, July 14, 2007 - 1:26 AMChris, an Art teacher I know stated that the "altered state" you talk about is referred to as "Phycical distancing". You are so focused on the creative aspects , that psychically, you are entirely diverted from other more mundane behaviors, such as being turned on. That definiton seems to work for me, as I get so focused on the shoot, and the mechanics of composition and taking shots I sometimes power through the shoot. A model of mine, stated that I will get you into painful positions that result in great shots. *SHrug* works, I do get some really cool shots.
AS for having sex with my models, that's a no go. I know of several shooters that have the rep of trying hard to get into the model's pants. ANd many models won't work with them because of that. I've also heard of anecdotal eveidence of Photogs being accused of rape post shoot. Model says she was coerced, shooter says she wasn't, and the courts decide. Not a space I want to ever be in. I have had girlfriends model, and had great fun and got awesome shots with them, bu we were intimiate before the shoot ever started. -
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Re: Taboos, Mores & Norms of Erotic Photography
Sat, July 14, 2007 - 7:52 PMScott makes a great point about the accusations, I have had a girlfriend pose for me and we were intimate before hand but I HAVE NEVER tried to seduce a model. As a matter of fact I try to always have another woman present during the shoots to not only help the model relax but to cover my own ass. That being said I have viewed the shoots I have done with friends that have modeled for me and told them "That picture really does something to me" and only once gotten aroused while viewing the photos with the model, she is a good friend that took my arousal as a compliment. Be careful as to not let your self get into a situation that would ruin you.
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Re: Taboos, Mores & Norms of Erotic Photography
Mon, July 16, 2007 - 1:34 PMI agree after the shoot or during the shoot the model is way to vulnerable. That's just one of my values and I'm way to busy to really notice my arousal even.
For clarification, as perhaps a way to get more intimate and know a model better... Kinda like photographing an intimate partner only in reverse, i.e. you get intimate with the model in order to achieve a more "real" photograph before the next shoot. Make more sense? -
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Re: Taboos, Mores & Norms of Erotic Photography
Mon, July 16, 2007 - 4:42 PMOnly if you want a reputation of being a photographer that tries to seduce his models. My advice is don't sleep with them, but better yet ask the women that you do sleep with to pose for you instead. That way you have slept with them before hand and you avoid giving other photographers a bad reputation. -
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Re: Taboos, Mores & Norms of Erotic Photography
Tue, July 17, 2007 - 8:58 AMI'll chime in here......how about...Don't mix business with pleasure.... I have shot pics of women that I had relationships with and if the relationship turns south the pressure of having shot the pics can cause problems...... It is best not to mix the two...unless you do not mind having to destroy your work to please others....in one case after deleating the images the other party wanted the images.....ah you said get rid of them....so I did. -
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Re: Taboos, Mores & Norms of Erotic Photography
Tue, July 17, 2007 - 9:37 AMA very Valid point Garythat happened to me once after that everybody had to sign a release, no matter who they were , I also make sure that if ladies get portraits done for a partner the partner knows about the copyright I hold. It came in very handy. -
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Re: Taboos, Mores & Norms of Erotic Photography
Wed, September 26, 2007 - 12:42 PMA release will not save a friendship or relationship. I would never wave a release in the air and say to a friend sorry you signed it....the pics are mine now....
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Re: Taboos, Mores & Norms of Erotic Photography
Mon, September 10, 2007 - 5:13 PMI don't think that's Weird at all.
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Re: Taboos, Mores & Norms of Erotic Photography
Tue, July 17, 2007 - 12:06 PMI do get erotically stimulated, but not in the sexual sense, in the sensual sense. Erotic literally means "of the senses." I am so involved with the composition and angles; the step list I have to run down in my head to shoot B&W infrared film that I am not engaged in any present sexual stimulation. I talk to myself as well as the model durring my shoots. But, I definatley get 'high' from engaging in my favorite art form, from dancing once again with my muse. I totally enjoy looking at a beautiful naked woman in a natural environment, its one of my quality of life events, but its so very much more, at that moment, then a seduction scene. And, when I look through the veiwfinder and get that elusive noetic sense that 'I got one,' that I have an exceptional image here, I'm higher than a kite! It is what life is about for me. I know that I am immortalizing a moment, an image in time and place that will live on well after I'm gone. This is very stimulating for me.
And, the real high comes days later when I have developed the film and printed out some images . . . I sit back and enjoy a glass of cabernet and just gaze upon the image. That is so satisfying for me. Sometimes we will sit my favorite images up on an easel on my patio, sit back, eat a wonderful dinner and drink good wine and appreciate and discuss the images. I've done this with models and they are always so apprecaitive of the entire experience: from the discussion pre-shoot, the shoot itself, and the post shoot dinner and basking in the glow of the experience of art they were a part of creating. All major quaitity of life experiences for me.
I have shot many lovers, and will do so in the future, I'm sure. I have a model release from all of them but one, my first. I have never had sex on a shoot and have no interest in passing up or possibly ruining the opportunity to make great art. I have become lovers with a couple models after the shoot is over and the prints are made.
Credibility is essential when shooting nudes. The models must feel comfortable with the situation or it will show up in the images. And, anyone that feels they were taken advantage of in any way will talk about it and rumors start. Rumors that warn models to be wary of you don't help you as an artist. .I would much rather have rumors of what a 'serious' artist I am, and what amazing images I make. This is more attractive to potential models that anything I know. -
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Re: Taboos, Mores & Norms of Erotic Photography
Thu, July 19, 2007 - 3:22 PMAll very good points. Thanks.
I just about always use model releases. It is a little weird to ask a girlfriend to sign a model release, but I haven't had a problem getting one signed yet. I took some poloroids of someone more at her request after she'd got a new piercing. When she felt that we weren't going to be intimate anymore, she requested them back which I did without drama (inside I was sad of course, but they weren't great photos as much as they represented our time together).
Daniel, I really like the way you described the viewing and enjoyment of the fruits of your labor.
It sounds like the bottom line is know your model (what you think she will or won't do, i.e. her limits and ere on the side of caution) and set clear boundaries between the shoot and the relationship. If she's a new person to me, be intimate with her first and introduce the modeling later on after the relationship has had a chance to grow and we know each other better.
Thanks again.
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Re: Taboos, Mores & Norms of Erotic Photography
Fri, August 10, 2007 - 3:12 PMGreat topic! I have personal expirience as a model on this.
I had a session, my photographer was SO proffessional. Made me feel comfortable! But at the end, we were closer in contact with eachother working and you could cut the sexual energy with a knife! He was wonderfully honest that this was amazing and he was turned on a bit. His honesty relaxed me, and knowing my poses were so hot, it very much motivated me to create some very sexy scenes. He never made a move, If he had id have been like WOO HOO! but when your modeleing its very exposing and vulnerable. Even if your acting your vulnerable. It would be wild..., but wrong to engage in that opporunity. As a photographer, unless photo is negotiated as part of a hot sex scene before hand, I never engage and remain proffessional, but I'm honest and let it go to my head to produce the best work possible!!! This is a very sexy job! and photographers should definately get laid more, but under different circumstances than a shoot. It would be taking advantage of someone vulnerable.
xo Flame -
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Re: Taboos, Mores & Norms of Erotic Photography
Fri, August 10, 2007 - 5:59 PMBottom line is: the identification of clear boundaries helps each party know exactly where they stand. It can provide a type of security blanket that allows the sensuality quotient to soar without the danger of going too far or misinterpreted cues from either party...
I just read in another thread on another site that model releases are no longer needed for FINE ART PHOTOGRAPHY in New York and California. Anyone else have any up to date info on this ? Of course it would be a damn good thing to have anyway ,even if it's not legally required. -
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Re: Taboos, Mores & Norms of Erotic Photography
Fri, August 10, 2007 - 9:36 PMI just did my first in-depth shoot about 10 days ago. The model was looking to add pictures to her portfolio and I was looking for some practical experience. It wasn't an erotic shoot; it was done, by mutual agreement, in a public park and she brought two friends along, again which I knew about ahead of time.
Still, it was a very stimulating experience. Not sexually, but just to be working that closely with someone else on a creative effort. Mostly I've been a writer and while I'm often interviewing people, writing itself is a solo thing.
This was something quite different. It really felt like she was putting her trust in me, and vice versa. The end result was I took about 90 shots and got some that I was extremely happy with.. But it brought home to me the importance of focusing my emotional energy on the creative process as opposed to thinking about how attractive the model is.
not enough brainpower to do both.. Maybe if I were more gifted as a photographer I would look at things differently, but for now it's case of giving someone the most professional effort I can.
And yes, I did prepare a photo release!
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Re: Taboos, Mores & Norms of Erotic Photography
Tue, September 11, 2007 - 9:05 PMWhat a wonderful post to a great Topic. Thank you. I have had situations where the tension is there both during and after the shoot it is one of the reasons I have two major ground rules First No partners allowed unless they are going to be in the pictures Guys get jealous easier then women do and I am there to take pictures not punches, secondly I always insist on another woman being there, this helps the model feel safe and to relax more, it also serves to cover my ass in the off chance that a model may say I acted inappropriately. Fortunately this has never happened to me but has happened to others that I know and caused serious problems in their lives. Flame if you ever get up to BC look me up with your healthy attitudeI would love to work with you or even have a coffee and discuss photography.
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Re: Taboos, Mores & Norms of Erotic Photography
Mon, September 10, 2007 - 1:25 PMI've been shooting fetish "events" for almost 2 years now but haven't done any private shoots yet, I'm still building my skills and portfolio. I recently had a nice long conversation with a potential model about what I'm after, what I do and don't do, what she was after, general poitics, etc. It helped to build some common ground between us, giving both of us a general idea of each other's character. Personally I'm not interested in shooting porn or "money shots", I'm searching for emotional content. That "something" that shows more than just a naked body, a shot that moves me on many levels, a shot that almost literally takes my breath away.
Starting from this point it makes it easier to avoid mixing business with pleasure. The focus of shooting distances me just enough from what I'm seeing that I don't get that turned on, though it has happened. The real discovery is reviewing the results afterward.
I think having sex with your models puts you on ethically shaky ground. Consenting adults always applies, but the effects of a good photoshoot can be just as intoxicating as many drugs with equivalent poor judgement. I think if your professional relationship with your model leads you eventually to a personal relationship you're in better shape. There is a balance of power between you and your model. If you are just using them to get your jollies there's an imbalance of power, and that's unhealthy and likely unethical. The photographers that use their profession to get some action usually reap what they sow. The same can be said about photographers that treat their models with respect. -
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Re: Taboos, Mores & Norms of Erotic Photography
Tue, September 11, 2007 - 6:50 AMLike many here have mentioned, while doing a shoot, there's nothing erotic or sexual about it while it's going on. Reactions are usually relegated to viewing the images later, however I've been on the receiving end of come-ons from the models both during and after the shoot. Needless to say, I never cross professional lines, and I've occassionally had some models be slightly offended with my turning them down. They normally have no problem with the explanation of being professional and eventually settle back into a good working relationship. -
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Re: Taboos, Mores & Norms of Erotic Photography
Wed, September 12, 2007 - 7:44 AMI agree great topic.
I remain detached.
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Re: Taboos, Mores & Norms of Erotic Photography
Wed, September 26, 2007 - 11:07 AMGlad to see I've been doing it right. I've rarely talked with other photographers on this and so it is nice to see it in a topic. I have always taken Chrisann along on shoots just because I thought it would be easier then being questioned at lenght when I come home however, and because we like to be together. I have never needed a wavier but maybe I should rethink that being in the SF-M-Bay? At least not for private shoots I mean.
I've aways done this, I install Picture Project by Nikon on their computer and dump them to their computer deleting them from the D200. Then if they want me to work on some I take them on open cd and return the cd. I've never come on to a model. None have come on to me. Chris says I'm a little slow on the pick up on that though and has told me that she felt they had however on the way home.
On several video shoots I've taken part but that get's kind of Gray area ish. So what do you think about that? When you are asked to be part of the shoot before hand and it's part of the planning. Why,,,, no one else was acceptable to the person and it was ok with Chris. She asked Chris to start with. Is there a line there? It was that or pack it up. Everyone was happy with it. Life is a gray scale in my opinion and there is almost never a completely black and white pic. If it is it's probubly a mask( Photo shop joke) and is specific to the selection.
Dan and Chris -
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Re: Taboos, Mores & Norms of Erotic Photography
Wed, September 26, 2007 - 12:44 PMI don't know if there is any right way to do an erotic shoot..... If shooting with a model I conduct myself as a professional. If with a friend and they tease or lead me on I'll go with the moment.
I think one needs to be very keen as to what the other wants or does not want... -
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Re: Taboos, Mores & Norms of Erotic Photography
Sun, October 7, 2007 - 8:21 PMI've messed around with models. I married one, even.
One thing I realized that is that the 'model and photographer' scenario is a fantasy turn-on for the models, often. As the photographer, you're almost just a prop in the fantasy...
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Re: Taboos, Mores & Norms of Erotic Photography
Mon, October 8, 2007 - 8:43 AMWe used to do Wedding photography many years ago, through which we were often delighted by the number of girls who offered to pose for us. We received offers from bride’s maids and guests alike. Of course we had to use a great deal of discretion to avoid being fired for our extra activity.
We will admit that we did have sexual encounters with some of the women, but not often. Today - speaking as a DOM, we have even a greater ability to enjoy sex with the often curious women which we encounter! Women today are much freer than women 30 years ago.
Today’s women have a desire to experience and experiment much more than women long ago. ENJOY
Master LatexHer
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The impenetrable glass wall of aesthetic distance
Sun, October 14, 2007 - 9:58 AMThe relationship that has to exist between a photographer and a model, especially if it is a nude, has to have the impenetrable glass wall that separates art and lust. I have tried to have a romantic relationship with women that I have photographed and it never works but if I have a physical relationship before taking the images it seems to make it more meaningful. Any woman who trusts someone to do intimate photographers of her deserves respect not betrayal by some horn dog.........
www.primostella.com