Looking at some of the photos, I have to wounder what it is that makes the difference between erotic and porn for people. I am about to start taking some erotic photos and I have many ideas bouncing around in my head as to what to take and how. I just thought I would ask here what others think.
Loki
Loki
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Unsu...
Re: Erotic-vs-Porn
Wed, September 12, 2007 - 6:35 AMthere can be a fine line of art and porn. i think first of all, you can ask yourself, what is the intent? secondly, how you present it, how you searve it on a silver platter. third.....beauty is in the eye of the beholder.... you can take a piece of porn, and you can take an individual who can take beauty in what they see, rather than raw animal raunchieness.
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Re: Erotic-vs-Porn
Wed, September 12, 2007 - 11:07 AMIf one were to review Mapplethorpe's work, there is a fine line between Art and erotica. I think beautifully executed works, with proper exposure, hard to photograph subjects, hard to make images would be considered high art or photography. If one were to compare Mapplethorpe to Richard Kern, one would say Kern is more Erotica than Art. But everything is matter of taste.
Images shot by Bob Mizer during his time of men's nude magazine Physique Pictorial was considered by straight public nothing more than a muscle magazine, although the United States Postal service thought it was porn before the age of Stonewall riots.
Mizer did not have the talents of George Platt Lynes, who was a vogue photographer during the 40's and 50's his work would been considered more artful, but not different and would had been treated as same-porn. -
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Re: Erotic-vs-Porn
Tue, September 18, 2007 - 11:00 AMIronically, some of the work that Mapplethorpe did that is considered "art" was actually shot for homosexual porn publications. Personally, I love his work and even at it's most gritty and overtly sexual it possesses a quality in the composition, lighting, character that I find appealing.
I picked up the Taschen book New Erotic Photography which features this question and it is interesting to read some of the responses by some well known photographers.
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Re: Erotic-vs-Porn
Tue, September 18, 2007 - 6:00 PMI saw Mapplethorpe's work at the U.C. Berkeley Art Museum when I was working in the Art Dept. there 87-93. It was transformative for me because,( even though as a transplant from New England), I confess to a bit of homophobia when first I moved to California,his CRAFT was so elevated,so exquisitely perfect,his use of light so sublime,that I very quickly lost track of the ATTACHMENT to the subject matter (fisting etc.)
The ART of it was so captivating that it became irrelevant what the subject was. In fact I would say this quality is one of the hallmarks of Craft that transcends it's own boundary and becomes HIGH ART.
Jesse Helms (may he burn in Hell) was either a Philistine or never ACTUALLY saw an example of the work,only based his prejudice on hearsay... -
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Re: Erotic-vs-Porn
Thu, September 20, 2007 - 3:39 PMA quote who's author I can't recall and will paraphrase is that the only difference between porn and art is the lighting.
Quality and intent. I agree that Art generally is of a higher quality technically, but there are times when the artist chooses to use a lower quality technique because his or her vision or message is best served by that lack of refinement. At the same time, there are many high quality images shot in the porn world.
There has also been the arguement that Art is sensual not sexual in nature. I think that's simply an escape into political correctness. Shooting the human form, clothed or unclothed, is inherently sexual to someone. There is nothing wrong with provoking arousal in the viewer—it's going to happen with someone, somewhere who views the image. So basically, the image is defined by it's intended purpose and the current social situation.
Shooting an orgy may for the purpose of documenting a sub-cultural event is different than shooting that same orgy to get someone off looking at a gangbang. Even if it is for the purpose of documentation - society may still label it as being pornographic. Pornographic images of the past seem quaint and innocent compared to today's exposure and acceptance of various sex acts.
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Unsu...
Re: Erotic-vs-Porn
Sun, February 10, 2008 - 12:22 PM"If one were to review Mapplethorpe's work, there is a fine line between Art and erotica. "
Can "erotica" not be considered "art"?
I consider "erotic art" to be a sub-set of art itself.
I do, however, see the difference- and yes it may be fine- between "art" and "porn".
H.
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Re: Erotic-vs-Porn
Wed, September 12, 2007 - 1:40 PMIMO
Art and erotica is something sensual, something that still leaves something to the imagination, even if its is something very small.
Porn is anything with penetration, or the idea of. The things that you dont wonder about, you already know.
But I guess there really is a fine line, and all opinions are different. We all view things differently.
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Re: Erotic-vs-Porn
Wed, September 12, 2007 - 3:11 PMWhen the image conveys an emotional, political, or psychological sexual message that exceeds the obvious image before the viewer.
When the beauty, lines, and forms within the photograph are more powerful, more alluring than the sexual activity the image displays.
When the image captures the perfect moment with technical perfection, perfectly.
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Re: Erotic-vs-Porn
Thu, September 13, 2007 - 10:36 AM
> When the image captures the perfect moment with technical perfection, perfectly.
Uhhh... in porn movies, I believe they call this "the money shot."
In other words, while I can *agree* with everything you said, I also note that everything you said requires personal interpretations and/or judgements, and that two people who "agree" on the words might differ quite sharply as to whether a given image was "erotic" or "pornographic"...
- Steve
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Re: Erotic-vs-Porn
Thu, September 13, 2007 - 11:15 AMI think porn falls under this current regulation:
www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/...00-.html
(A) Except as provided in subparagraph (B), “sexually explicit conduct” means actual or simulated—
(i) sexual intercourse, including genital-genital, oral-genital, anal-genital, or oral-anal, whether between persons of the same or opposite sex;
(ii) bestiality;
(iii) masturbation;
(iv) sadistic or masochistic abuse; or
(v) lascivious exhibition of the genitals or pubic area of any person;
(B) For purposes of subsection 8(B) [1] of this section, “sexually explicit conduct” means—
(i) graphic sexual intercourse, including genital-genital, oral-genital, anal-genital, or oral-anal, whether between persons of the same or opposite sex, or lascivious simulated sexual intercourse where the genitals, breast, or pubic area of any person is exhibited;
(ii) graphic or lascivious simulated;
(I) bestiality;
(II) masturbation; or
(III) sadistic or masochistic abuse; or
(iii) graphic or simulated lascivious exhibition of the genitals or pubic area of any person; -
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Re: Erotic-vs-Porn
Mon, September 17, 2007 - 4:36 AMi may have a biased opinion, tho i certainly do as much...
"(II) masturbation; or
(III) sadistic or masochistic abuse; or
(iii) graphic or simulated lascivious exhibition of the genitals or pubic area of any person"
as i possibly can i still maintain that i dont do porn!!! porn is sex & sex with machines doesnt count ;) -
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Re: Erotic-vs-Porn
Mon, September 17, 2007 - 2:01 PMObviously you're a filthy harlot and will burn in hell for eternity.
I feel so sorry for you, It's obvious you're in great pain and anguish...LOL
My view on the subject has to do with the differentiation of both the light levels and the quality of light.
Porn to me is all about seeing EVERYTHING,so there's little left to the imagination,and no intimacy.
Erotica has more to do with stimulating a dialog within the observer,engaging their mind ,presenting an image that is suggestive enough to LEAD,but abstract enough to let them bring their own history to bear and "fabricate" their own storyline for the piece...
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Unsu...
Re: Erotic-vs-Porn
Sun, February 10, 2008 - 12:25 PMI think some of those things can be represented in art. I don't think that an artistic, creative, and classy image of a person touching him/herself has to be considered pornography.
I think the idea of all of this, as it has been mentioned here before, is really in the eye of the beholder and in the intentions by the artist.
H.
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Re: Erotic-vs-Porn
Wed, September 12, 2007 - 3:44 PMI agree here for my self this holds true but I have some some shots where you knew there was indeed penetration if you could not see it and they were wonderful artistic photos. I guess it is all in the persons' viewing the work mind ... my ex wife would say anything that showed a naked form was Porn while a more open minded person would think a well shot photo of a couple making love was a work of art.
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Re: Erotic-vs-Porn
Tue, October 16, 2007 - 12:31 PMhey there,
agree.....
would love to have you as a friend and to invite you to part of my new project "erotisan"
we building online erotic community for our erotic artists and for people who dare to share their alternative lifestyle.
please, join our community and you are also welcome to give us feedback once we launch the site.
www.erotisan.com
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Unsu...
Re: Erotic-vs-Porn
Wed, September 12, 2007 - 4:15 PMto kind of elaborate on what i was talking about earlier, if anyone cares lol....... lets take my pic on my profile, the popcicle. one could view it as nasty and raunchy. or you could look at is as being creative. something you dont see everday. if your an ass person, it could be viewed as a beautiful work of art.
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Unsu...
Re: Erotic-vs-Porn
Thu, September 13, 2007 - 5:26 PMMy view of erotic photos are those that they:
use lighting and props in a sensual manner
the subject of the photo is sexy and tantalizing
the subject may be nude, semi-nude, or fully clothed but revealing enough to arouse your imagination (or other things as well)
the subject makes you long for more and you can envision what may be beneath the surface of the fabric or other item thay may shield what is really beneath
Pornography in my view is:
Photos of penetratoin (male/female; female/female or mail via strap-ons)
Photos of men masturbating
Photos of women with dildos or other "weapons of mass masturbation"
Photos of cum shots
Photos of oral sex
Woman flagrantly exposing their "honey pot" -
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Re: Erotic-vs-Porn
Fri, September 14, 2007 - 1:08 AMIt's amazingly simple.
Erotica is what I like.
Porn is what you like. -
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Re: Erotic-vs-Porn
Sat, February 9, 2008 - 3:30 PM
>> It's amazingly simple.
>>
>> Erotica is what I like.
>> Porn is what you like.
>
Yup... that's what it comes down to when all is said and done... :-}
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Re: Erotic-vs-Porn
Wed, September 19, 2007 - 5:10 AMI was interviewd on this very topic last month for the British Journal of Photography. It was both for print as well as on-line. The on-line version is behind a membership link but I have the full article on my site. kirinawa.com Here is a link to the article, please sut & past if the link breaks. kirinawa.com/folio/index.php
There are some very valid points in the article, please have a read & tell me what you think. It seems to come down to "lighting & skill in the making of the image"
Lochai
kirinawa.com
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Re: Erotic-vs-Porn
Wed, September 19, 2007 - 9:27 AMThis is a difficult subject to define. What one person sees as porn ,other see as art! For example - The statue of David is art to us, however to some it is ancient porn. Remember the controversy about Life Magazine and the anniversary of the bra? They wound up removing the issues off the shelf because some woman complained that the showing a woman’s breasts supported by a bra was porn! We always felt that that lady would have a problem on any beach too. LOL -
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Re: Erotic-vs-Porn
Thu, September 20, 2007 - 3:56 AMIn the famous words of Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart: "I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced . . . [b]ut I know it when I see it "
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Re: Erotic-vs-Porn
Thu, September 20, 2007 - 8:22 PMI would like to thank you all for your input. I am starting to form an idea of my own on what the difference is. I am still open though to change as time goes on.
Loki
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Re: Erotic-vs-Porn
Sat, September 22, 2007 - 2:58 PMPorn is something that people wank off to, until they reach orgasm. Example: shots where the camera is zeroed in on genitalia. Which can be boring! (yawn!)
Erotic is more artsy. It engages with a higher esthetic. Erotic engages your mind and heart, as well as possibly your private parts!
Erotic is showing the entire human body in an artistic light. It's got a different "feeling" to it from mere pornography.
It's like the difference between fucking and making love. Both are great. But they are different!
The erotic involves more chakras, or energy, then mere porn. Mere porn is mostly genital-level, without any attempt to stimulate the intellect or any sense of the aesthetic. -
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Unsu...
Re: Erotic-vs-Porn
Sat, September 22, 2007 - 7:44 PMalthough this is your opinion, i would have to disagree with you. people can and do wank off to erotica. its just a matter of preference for them. there have been many a nights that me and my guy have looked up erotica, valejo, and others and just their art work was enough to get my guy and i all sorts of randy.
you can take a modle, put an outfit on her, use nice lighting, use maybe a b/w film or the brown film (sorry i had a brain fart cant remember what it is called) put her in an innosent pose. but as soon as you use color film, it can and will usually be slapped as being porn.
you can take what would be considered erotica and slap the lable of porn on it. it is all about personal taste and preference.
a better way to define of what is porn and what is erotica is.............
your own personal norms, values, and morals.
yeah you can have a check list of what defines porn as porn, but it all boils down to a persons own values and morals
cut and dry. -
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Re: Erotic-vs-Porn
Sun, September 23, 2007 - 3:36 AMThere is a classic book on advertising, decades old now, on how advertising is designed to make unconscious suggestion to the viewer. The cover picture is of ordinary ice cubes melting in a glass. It is designed to be erotic. You don't need people, nudity, or even organic matter to create erotic imagery. Do you need to be reminded of the classic shots of trains going into tunnels, and waves lapping on shores?
Many things can create erotic imagery. Porn just isn't very subtle about it. -
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Unsu...
Re: Erotic-vs-Porn
Sun, September 23, 2007 - 1:30 PMvery very true, however, for me, for those images to even be thought of as erotic, i need to have sex-itis, or sex on the brain. cuz if i dont, hmmmmm.... its just a train going into a tunnel. but the moment my mind starts to go into the gutter, ANYTHING can and does seem dirty. -
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Re: Erotic-vs-Porn
Tue, September 25, 2007 - 10:01 AMwww.saudek.com erotica at its' maximum height of achievement !
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Re: Erotic-vs-Porn
Tue, September 25, 2007 - 3:40 PMAnything, hmmm? Lily, imagine if you will, a pen writing across paper...... the faint scritch-scratch of letters marching across paper like ants at a picnic.... or a lovers' fingers across skin... or a famous rock star's fingers dancing across the frets..... or butterfly feet across a field of flowers.....
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Re: Erotic-vs-Porn
Wed, September 26, 2007 - 11:26 AMIt's like pix,,,,, The only black and white pix are usually masks and specific to the selection ( Photo shop joke or wisdom you pick).
Dan and Chris
Life is a gray scale it's all in your point of view and exposure. -
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Re: Erotic-vs-Porn
Wed, September 26, 2007 - 1:16 PMI have come to actually dislike the "shades of gray" analogies. Few things in life are simply a matter of polar opposites or something derivative inbetween them. It is a simple one dimensional scale That's why we have color. And when we are discussing tastes., color is far more appropriate than black and white or something inbetween. -
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Re: Erotic-vs-Porn
Sun, October 7, 2007 - 2:06 PM -
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Re: Erotic-vs-Porn
Sun, October 7, 2007 - 8:17 PMI'll leap into the abyss...
When I started doing my erotic work over 10 years ago, I specifically rejected any difference between porn and erotica. In my experience, porn is erotica you don't think people would approve of and erotica is porn you think they will.
Another definition that I use is that I'm artist, because pornographers make money.
I just know what I like and what I don't. Really, the labels are just ways oneself feel more socially acceptable when in fact you probably really aren't, anyway.
I call my stuff Fine Art Pornograpy - go visit IntimateArts.com, visit the galleries and see.
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Re: Erotic-vs-Porn
Sun, October 7, 2007 - 8:50 PMIt really comes down to your intent as the artist.Are you making poached eggs or are you making eggs benedict.Are you making a vodka cran or a cape cod.It really comes down to your emotion and the emotions you want to bring out of your model.There will always be those people out there who percieve what you're doing as something you never intended so why try to please the rest. Porn,in the united states at least, has gotten a very bad name. That porn is sleazy and demeans women.When it does neither. That is a discussion for another time,but what i am trying to convey to you is go have fun,take it to the edge and..
POST OFTEN .=)
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Re: Erotic-vs-Porn
Tue, October 16, 2007 - 12:04 PMhey Loki
you would be a perfect "erotisan"
would love to have you as a friend and to invite you to part of my new project "erotisan"
we building online erotic community for our erotic artists and for people who dare to share their alternative lifestyle.
please, join our community, get a free membership and you are also welcome to give us feedback once we launch the site.
www.erotisan.
lots of love, Mistress Joy
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Re: Erotic-vs-Porn
Tue, October 30, 2007 - 7:15 AMSimply put: porn is for money. -
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Re: Erotic-vs-Porn
Tue, October 30, 2007 - 12:31 PMHummmm no not really..... Maybe porn is made without thought of the final output being erotic.... Porn is made to sexually stimulate one to act.....Where erotic is made more to make people feel and think sexy thoughts....
People are making money shooting erotic material so money should not define what is or is not porn.
My two cents....can I change my mind later? haha -
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Re: Erotic-vs-Porn
Tue, October 30, 2007 - 6:32 PMIt's an etymology thing; "pornographer" is a trade. "Pornography" is a commodity. Your porn might be erotic, but (as the trend that led to modern usage indicates) it usually isn't; it's usually something like a wrench or a lift, but for masturbation - the brass-tacks, if you will, of arousal. Instead of "maybe this will cure your gout" it's "maybe this will stimulate your sexuality". -
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Re: Erotic-vs-Porn
Thu, November 1, 2007 - 12:02 AMIf you're going to do the etymology thing, then pornography (porne + graphos) is literally the writing of prostitutes.
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Re: Erotic-vs-Porn
Sat, February 9, 2008 - 7:08 PMWell, it's all very simple actually - you see it's, er...ummmm. Just think in terms of, uh... well you know... it's all in the way that, uh... Gawd I don't have a clue...
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Re: Erotic-vs-Porn
Sun, February 10, 2008 - 12:53 AMerotic gives you a hard on; porn makes you cum.... -
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Unsu...
Re: Erotic-vs-Porn
Sun, February 10, 2008 - 12:31 PM"erotic gives you a hard on; porn makes you cum..."
I think that this is a very simplistic view of this discussion. Perhaps you are right. You are entitled to your own opinion, anyway.
I think that (and this has been stated before in this thread) both erotica (erotic art) and pornography can lead to arousal and even orgasms. I think that it all depends on the individual (or individuals) watching/looking at the images.
Perhaps one (wo)man's Mapplethorp is another (wo)man's Ron Jeremy.
I don't know. I don't judge. I just know what is erotic art and pornography in my mind.
I have no issue with either. I enjoy both erotic art and pornography; it just depends on my mood and how I want to be engaged.
Neither of these things are an end-all-be-all to my arousal...they are usually used as a form of fore-play.
*shrugs*
That's just my 2c.
H.
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Re: Erotic-vs-Porn
Sun, February 10, 2008 - 12:29 PMThe different is what ever you want it to be!
Patrick